Stephen Fleming looks back at ten years in charge of New Zealand and reflects on the difficult art of captaincy, his role models, and why his country doesn’t produce top-class players nearly as often as it would like to
Interview by Utpal Shuvro10-Jan-2008
‘I only felt the last three or four years was my time as captain’ © Getty Images
After being captain for so long, you probably got used to the ball coming to you at the end of every over. How have you adapted to the change?
I guess the difference is not being involved in the decision-making. You are so used to it, and conditioned after ten years of watching the game and instinctively making moves, moving a field, trying to read the game and see the game through your own eyes. To some degree you lose that when you are not captain. Still, I watch and pass information to Daniel [Vettori], but he sees it differently at times. Therefore your impact on the game is a lot less. Stepping back is a difficult transition.But in a sense is it a big relief as well? There must be a lot of stress in captaining an international side?
Having done it for ten years, it was just the way I knew the game. The time of being tired of it was gone. I was so conditioned and so used to it.No, I wasn’t relieved. I was disappointed to lose the Test captaincy, because I still loved it and still thought I had lot to offer. So I am disappointed that I am still not the Test captain.Ian Chappell has a theory that no captain should continue for more than four or five years.
That is fine. But I only felt the last three or four years was my time as captain. The years building up to that were mostly a case of having no one else. I was just lucky to get some grounding or experience, but I only deem the last three or four years as my captaincy years. As a general rule, I agree, three or four years.During those three or four years that you consider your captaincy years, you were considered one of the best in the business. What do you think is the most challenging part of being an international cricket captain?
Man management. Managing players, making decisions about player’s welfares, futures, and managing that is a tough job.People often judge captains on what they can see on the field, but a lot of work is done off the field too. How important is that part?
Huge. There is a lot off the field, a lot of leadership work these days. I tended to work a lot off the field because it made me calm as a captain on the field. It gave more direction, if you like.Like in an interview – if you do your homework, the interview goes a lot easier rather than coming with no preparations. Then the interview can be fifty-fifty. It’s the same in cricket. If you do a lot of work and preparation for the game, you tend to have more opportunities to make the right decisions.About the off-the-field management of the players – you have to be careful about not intruding into their private lives, don’t you?
Yes, space is important. But it is up to the players. You have to adhere to the team rules. You respect a player’s free time. Also, when they come to work, you make sure it is purposeful and the time is managed well. I think the biggest thing is managing time, because it becomes tough these days with so many tours, so many commitments, meetings.What has been the most satisfying part of your captaincy career, and the most disappointing one?
I guess the most disappointing was, we never won a series against Australia, and also the World Cup – not being able get to the World Cup final. I think there is perhaps a little bit of acceptance that we are always going to be the team that will occasionally have its good days Satisfying … you’re satisfied with the little things. If you had a plan and it worked, or you spend a lot of time workinga batsman out and it came off. In the series in Australia [2001-02] it worked a number of times. So there was a lot of satisfaction in putting Australia under pressure. We haven’t won a series there but we put a number of great players under pressure for the firsttime in their careers. That was very satisfying.The last time I interviewed you, you spoke very highly of Steve Waugh. Would you say that Waugh has been the ultimate captain of your time?
Martin Crowe and Steven Waugh were the two biggest influences in my captaincy career. Martin Crowe because he was so innovative and he didn’t have a great side. He was able to lift the team and get them to enhance their performances.Steve Waugh had a different challenge: of managing some great players. He had to maintain the high standard as well. Both these two were geniuses of the time.At the press conference after the World cup semi-final defeat against Sri Lanka in the Caribbean, you came out with a surprisingly honest statement about New Zealand’s repeated failure to reach the World Cup final and New Zealand’s inability to produce enough world-class players. My question is related to that. Why has New Zealand produced so few flair playerslike Chris Cairns or Shane Bond? Why are New Zealand cricketers more dour, generally? Is it to do with national characteristics?
Maybe. Maybe something to do with our way of coaching. I think [the size of] our population as well.We only rarely produce world-class players. Australia seems to have an abundance of them. It goes back to the conditions they play in. You see, it’s the middle of the summer here, but we still do not have the conditions that will make people want to go out and train and become flair players. We have to grow inside and do the hard work.I think there is perhaps a little bit of acceptance that we are always going to be the team that will occasionally have its good days.If you have to pick the ideal batsman, who would it be?
I will pick three players – Lara, Ponting, Tendulkar. Combinations of these three. They have consistently performed under pressure.Tendulkar has always been been under pressure from his fans, from the Indian public. Lara because he was very much holdingthe team together. Ponting, because he saw the expectation of his cricketing heritage. All three had to perform under pressure and consistently do so. Great players!Is there a particular shot any batsman plays that makes you think, ‘Wish I could play like this’?
As a left-handed batsman, while watching Lara – he’s a different player, you cannot play like him – but watching the way he hits the ball to the off side, so languid and loose. I always wished I could do that. The way he played the spinners, hitting the ball over the top – I never had the grace to do that.Lot of things he did went against the coaching manual. That’s the beauty of the game.Look at Malinga, Murali … you can be different and still succeed. There should be different way of coaching those [kinds of] players. We tend to try and bring everyone back into, say, Ricky Ponting’s technique rather than allow people to play and have their natural instinct take over.
‘If you do a lot of work and preparation for the game, you tend to have more opportunities to make the right decisions’ © Getty Images
As one of the most senior players in international cricket, what do you see as the game’s main challenge ahead?
One thing can be the managing the emergence of Twenty20 competitions and the impact that’s going to have on the international programme. And combined with that is the amount of cricket is played, keeping a balance so that players have enough time off.That’s the challenge, the new form of the game, Twenty20.Do you see Twenty20 as a threat to one-day internationals?
I think so. One-day cricket might become a little stagnant. You already see not as many people are going to the one-dayers as before. Twenty20 is the shot in the arm cricket needs. And that will affect the longer form. I think Test cricket and Twenty20 cricket are going to be the way forward.There is a conception that most international cricketers live in a cocoon, not very conscious of social and political happenings. What about you? Do you keep track of what’s going on around the world?
Yeah, I do. I do try to keep an eye on what’s going on. Cricket to me has been great, but certainly there are bigger issues I am looking to getting into. Business-wise there are new challenges there. Yes, there are some courses and other interests that I wantto explore. I have now got a little more time but a young family and children as well. Children are a pretty strong part of what I want to do in moving forward.To be aware of things outside of the game also give you a better perspective on cricket, does it not?
Even in the game, it helps. Too many of our players left the game feeling bitter and angry that they were not selected or whatsoever. I will never do that.
Martin Crowe was your idol, and you have also been very close to him. I have seen you spend lot of time with him. But at times he has come out in the media with very strong criticism of you. How do you react to that?
I listen to it. Because there can be something in it. If there’s not, then move on. I don’t get too caught up in criticism, because it’s a game. If it is a personal attack, then I will take an issue. But if it is to do with the game, tactics, subjective criticism, it can be helpful, especially if it is from a quality captain like Martin Crowe, I would certainly listen.